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Queens Chronicle

Pride House forum slams Israeli policies

Welcome to the discussion.

6 comments:

  • bbridges posted at 8:41 pm on Wed, Jun 12, 2013.

    bbridges Posts: 2

    Marla: Israel funds all kinds of schools, including non-sectarian schools that include people of all faiths and ethnic backgrounds. There are Israeli-only roads in the West Bank between various settlements and Israel for security reasons, but they are not Jewish only; Israeli Arabs, Druze, etc. drive on them too. The bus routes you describe were added by a private, joint Israeli-Palestinian Arab bus company to better serve Palestinians living in West Bank villages who needed to travel to work in other West Bank cities and villages or to travel into Israel.

    South Africa didn't permit blacks to attend white universities or to work in most professions. Israeli Arabs attend universities in proportion to the population at large (including Omar Bargouti, the lead proponent of BDS who is himself a student at Tel Aviv University), are doctors in hospitals, representatives to the Knesset, at all levels of law including the Supreme Court. It's disingenuous for you to pretend you don't see the difference.

     
  • marla posted at 5:03 pm on Mon, Jun 10, 2013.

    marla Posts: 0

    bbridges: explicit or implicit--when a state creates Jewish-only schools, neighborhoods, streets, bus routes, take Palestinian houses within Jerusalem if you leave to study outside the country for more than 3 years, privileges Jews even on Palestinian land, ad nauseam, the words equality, freedom, justice, democracy do NOT come to mind. But as you say we are talking about lbgt issues and you berated Brad for going off script when he mentions South Africa. Sooo, on script, Apartheid South Africa eliminated sodomy laws in 1994, while the US didn't do so until 2003. So was South Africa a gay mecca, would we correct the critics of Apartheid to say but it is good for the gays--oops, white gays, mainly men. Palestinian queers, whether in the 48 or in the West Bank cannot have an official voice in Israel. They exist for propaganda about Israel, not to be heard from. And so, I see, you do Israel's work.

     
  • Jayson posted at 4:52 pm on Mon, Jun 10, 2013.

    Jayson Posts: 0

    Brad -- Apartheid is a system of racial segregation -- Jews and Palestinians are not racial groups. If you still believe Israel is an Apartheid state, who do you reckon the Palestinian version of a "Mandela" to be?

    Let's be clear -- the issue with the anti-pinkwashing folks has very little do about pinkwashing. I truly believe that all folks, like Schulman, Park and Taylor even believe little in the whole "Israel distracts the world from the..." case as its hardly talked about in their own sessions. The main outcome and discussion for those that fight against pinkwashing is all about the end of the occupation and result of a one-state solution. Little discussion is even held of what post-one-state solution looks like for the entire Jewish population, let alone the entire LGBT population of Israel.

    I just wish the anti-pinkwashing leaders would be clear and say "my ultimate view is a one-state solution and the future is not having Israel exist at all." and then arguing with them on pinkwashing is irrelevant because you are likely not seeing eye to eye on the end result anyway.

     
  • bbridges posted at 10:17 am on Mon, Jun 10, 2013.

    bbridges Posts: 2

    Brad: South Africa had an explicit policy of Apartheid. In spite of BDS advocate's best efforts to pretend otherwise, Apartheid is not an Israeli policy. Israel's Palestinian Arab citizens enjoy equal rights, including the right to vote, observe their religions, attend the same universities as non-Arab Israelis, serve in the Knesset and the Supreme Court, etc. This doesn't sound anything like Apartheid to me.

    As far as an LBGT issue, LBGTQ Palestinians speak very openly about their situation in Israel, America, and Europe. They don't do so in Gaza or the West Bank, and I'm sure they won't be able to do so in a future Palestinian state. THAT is an LBGTQ issue.

    Finally, when Schulman and Park and other BDS proponents advocate for the end of the only Jewish state in the world when there are already 22 Arab states--all of which have abysmal records on LBGTQ issues--including one that occupies 72% of historic Palestine and is 80% Palestinian, THAT is an LBGTQ issue.

    After the Six-Day War, Israel offered to return the West Bank to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt (both had been occupying those lands since 1948), but were refused. The Palestinians continue to refuse to come to the negotiating table because they are more interested in destroying Israel than in building a state; just look at what they did when they had they got sovereignty of Gaza.

     
  • Brad Taylor posted at 9:22 am on Sun, Jun 9, 2013.

    Brad Taylor Posts: 0

    The idea that occupation and apartheid from an LGBT perspective in Palestine-Israel can only be discussed fairly if pro-Israel voices are included is a red herring. If this were the 1980-s and the apartheid situation being discussed were South Africa, would Mr. Bridges be calling for fair inclusion of the apartheid South African government? Palestinian queers speak very clearly about their positions as LGBT people in occupied Palestine and within apartheid Israel.

     
  • bbridges posted at 10:15 am on Fri, Jun 7, 2013.

    bbridges Posts: 2

    It sounds like it was a very nice evening in the anti-Israel echo chamber. Many people, including me, called on Park to include pro-Israel voices and got the same line quoted in the article. Pro-Israel events sponsored by pro-Israel political advocacy organizations are under no obligation to include anti-Israeli views. However, a community organization, sponsoring a "forum" on LBGT issues in Israel/Palestine that only includes speakers who are anti-Israel seems to me like Park is abusing her leadership position at QPH to advance her agenda.

    On the Palestinian part of the trip, participants were told to closet themselves and to not be open about being LBGTQ. Yet, they see the main LBGTQ issue in the conflict as Israel using its pro-LBGTQ record for so-called "pink washing".