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Queens Chronicle

Feds remove geese from Jamaica Bay

Plan had environmentalist support but some worry about other birds

Welcome to the discussion.


  • killinggeesedoesnotprotectplanes posted at 2:37 pm on Fri, Jul 13, 2012.

    killinggeesedoesnotprotectplanes Posts: 16

    As far back as 2003, the International Bird Strike Committee was very unimpressesd with the FAA and bird strike reporting, or lack of it, in the USA. This is an excellent document everyone should read paying special attention to #4 which describes the very poor bird strike reporting on the Bird Strike Data Base, which was and is maintained by the USDA WS.

    #11 describes the FAA as the 'OLD SCHOOL SAFETY CULTURE'. Very accurate.

    They never collected enough information about bird strikes to develop rational effective wildlife management plans - as is evident in this insane rampaging and killing of canada geese.

    You know what - they don't kill birds away from an airport in Canada where mandatory bird strike reporting has been in place for years - it's crazy and ineffective. Dead geese will be replaced with other birds.

  • killinggeesedoesnotprotectplanes posted at 12:36 pm on Fri, Jul 13, 2012.

    killinggeesedoesnotprotectplanes Posts: 16

    "It was a flock of Canada geese that brought down US Airways Flight 1549 in January 2009. The plane took off from LaGuardia Airport and was forced to ditch in the Hudson River after both engines failed due to a bird strike.

    1) The Smithsonian Institute Feather Analysis Laboratory confirmed those geese were migratory geese from Labrador, Canada.

    2) Flight 1549 was an Airbus A320. It's engines did NOT MEET CURRENT BIRD INGESTION STANDARDS. The new standards required an engine to be able to remain functional after ingesting a bird twice the weight that the old standard did. Therefore it is entirely reasonable to think had the engines met current standards Flight 1549 would have been able to make it to an airport to land rather than the Hudson River.

    "In 2007, the FAA adopted new regulations regarding bird strikes,and the new rules increased the size of the birds used in the core tests to 5½ pounds. However, engines certificated prior to 2007 were NOT obliged to meet the new requirements."


    3) In 2004, the FAA had issued warnings about double engine stall on Airbus A320's after two crashes in Europe due to double engine stall.

    “An emergency safety directive has been issued to airlines using twin-engine Airbus A320s after both engines on one stalled over the Mediterranean, just 18 days after an Air New Zealand A320 crashed killing all seven on board………. American authorities warned such stalling problems could prevent continued safe flight or landing.”


  • killinggeesedoesnotprotectplanes posted at 12:09 pm on Fri, Jul 13, 2012.

    killinggeesedoesnotprotectplanes Posts: 16

    “We could not afford to sit back and wait for a catastrophe to occur before cutting through bureaucratic red tape between federal agencies,”said Gillibrand. “We are finally taking action to help reduce bird strikes and save lives."

    ....Maybe Ms. Senator doesn't read much. The "USDA Summary: New York City Canada GooseRemovals in 2011" states:

    "An analysis of data from the FAA Wildlife StrikeDatabase, estimated that 81% of 1,238 reported Canada goose strikes nationwide from 1990 – 2009 were from resident non-migrating geese"

    ....if you can get through the 'gafflegab' - this tells you there were 1,238 goose strikes in the USA from 1990 to 2009.

    That works out to 1.3 goose strikes per state per year - and 81% of those were resident geese.

    So from 1990 to 2009 there was part of a resident goose strike per state per year.


    Yes.....I can really see how killing thousands of innocent resident Canada geese in NYC is going to cut the number of bird strikes - 1.3 goose strikes per state per year and only 81% of that were resident geese.

    It is obvious with 1.3 goose strikes per year in NY state that NYC's resident geese understand something about airports and planes. By killing the birds that knew the airspace I believe they have greatlly increased the risk of a catastrophic strike as they have now created a vacuum for birds unfamiliar with the airspace to fill. I hope they have a lot of liability coverage.

  • killinggeesedoesnotprotectplanes posted at 12:04 pm on Fri, Jul 13, 2012.

    killinggeesedoesnotprotectplanes Posts: 16

    It will be interesting to find out exactly why these geese were killed and what permit was given and why.

    Are we supposed to believe the wildlife brains at Jamaica Bay et al didn't know Canada geese had babies and that it might be wise to begin controlling their population years ago with a non violent method such as egg addling?


    The Okanagan Valley Goose Management program is working on its SIXTH YEAR OF EGG ADDLING TO CONTROL THE NUMBER OF CANADA GEESE in public spaces.

    “LAST YEAR, field crews located and ADDLED 1308 EGGS FROM 274 nests between Vernon and Osoyoos...The multi-year project aims to reduce the population of resident Canada geese to a more manageable level, and reduce large concentrations of geese in heavily used public areas.


    The resident goose population in the Atlantic Flyway is totally due to federal and state wildlife agencies efforts. They have been counting the geese in the Atlantic Flyway every year to establish hunting seasons and bag limits. They had a pretty good idea of the number of geese there were. http://www.mdwfa.org/flyway/CAGO_RPManagementPlan.pdf

    It is unbelievable they did not know the population of Canada geese and that they did not know about egg addling, therefore their excuse that suddenly these geese were causing such environmental damage they had to be killed right now is TOTALLY UNBELIEVABLE.

    managing manage their population years ago and that they didn't know about egg addling?

  • PattyA posted at 7:38 am on Fri, Jul 13, 2012.

    PattyA Posts: 1

    It seems the rationalizations for "culling" geese change according to the day, the location and the weather.

    One day the excuse is "airline safety." The next day, it is "poop on golf shoes" or suppoesly striving to achieve "ecological balance."

    Did anyone provide proof of any of the claims?

    Geese are actually very peaceful birds who generally attract other waterfowl as opposed to chasing other birds out or eating their food.

    But, urban environments can be very challenging and intimidating for more sensitive species of birds to adapt to and survive.

    But, hey if we can blame the disappearance of other bird species on the more adaptable and hardy Canada geese, then by all means, do so! The geese are such easy scapegoats for almost everything gone wrong in human created environment and they neither have votes nor lawyers to defend them.

    Nevertheless, the use of different excuses for our now seemingly endless "war" on Canada geese reminds one of certain criminals and their slick lawyers who come up with differnt excuses for murder. -- Everything from perceived self-defense to movies, TV shows and even eating Twinkies.

    Or, maybe it is simply, "If the glove don't fit, you have to acquit."

    Well, "the glove doesn't fit here."

    The different and constantly changing rationalizations and excuses for goose carnage suggest difficulty in keeping the lies straight and actually remembering them.

  • PattyA posted at 7:13 am on Fri, Jul 13, 2012.

    PattyA Posts: 1

    It appears that when journalists fail to do proper research and ask questions (such as "How were the geese killed?) they resort to using euphemisms such as the geese were "euthanized."

    This conjures up images of a vet stroking a dying and beloved pet before injecting lethal solution that brings quick and merciful ending to suffering.

    But, that is hardly the case with the 751 geese.

    The geese were not suffering and they were not "mercifully put to sleep" as represented by the "good death" definition of "euthanasia."

    In fact, neither the writer of this article nor apparenly top personnel at the USDA know HOW the geese died (or are saying),

    Were they gassed? Were they slaughtered?

    Different media reports state different things. And when reporters don't know and apparently don't investigate, they fall back on the term, "euthanasia" which makes everyone feel good, but in fact, renders the word absolutely meaningless.

    Since the misapplication of this term to refer to geese rounded up, stuffed 4 to 5 in crates and transported long distance from NYC in summer heat to be killed by non-vet personnel lacks credibility, we have to surmise that the rest of this article (such as the different excuses for the massacre) lacks truth and credibility and thus represents the author mostly reporting canned press releases by those reponsible for this carnage as "news."

    This week has been a sad one for the 751 geese who sought safety at a wildlife refuge through the summer molt, but instead encountered cruelty and death.

    But, it is even a sadder one for the principles of "accuracy in media" and investigative journalism.

    Edward R, Murrow must be rolling in his grave.